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Last time Lale chatted with outdoors expert and Condé Nast Traveler contributor Emily Pennington, she was fresh off her book tour for Feral, a memoir chronicling her mission to visit every national park in the United States. This week, Emily rejoins us in the studio to talk about what she’s been up to since then, including adventures in Patagonia, how she’s prioritizing her wellbeing while still exploring the outdoors, and her tips for getting out into the wilderness in exciting—and safe—ways.
Lale Arikoglu: Hi there, I'm Lale Arikoglu, and this is Women Who Travel. When I last caught up with Emily Pennington, she was promoting her book, Feral, all about her year-long journey to every national park in the US. It was a physically and at times emotionally intense experience, but in the years since we last spoke, Emily's made some small changes closer to home.
Emily Pennington: I think that going on a huge wild adventure that totally ruptures your sense of self and the core of who you are, puts your perspectives in place in a way that few other things will. But one thing that's been really cool is that I have since relocated from Los Angeles to Boulder, Colorado, which I think personally is quite a big self-care move. It's much smaller. There's no traffic. There's mountains literally outside my window right now. I think that learning how to be more of a weekend warrior and have non-adrenaline-fueled activities that I get into on a regular basis in addition to my love of the wilderness in national parks, has been a big part of the last 12 to 18 months. One of the things that I love so much about living much closer to a national park and closer to numerous wilderness areas is having the opportunity to do both depending on what my energy level dictates. And also I just turned 37 two months ago, and so I am keenly aware in a new way of having my energy level and desire to do certain activities change.
LA: Which is a liberating thing I think.
EP: I mean, my body is kind of like the period at the end of the sentence of what I'm going to do. If my legs are cramping and I can't go up a mountain, then I'm not going up a mountain and I don't need to scream and yell about it.
LA: Yeah, your body tells you when it's done.
EP: Yes, exactly.
LA: But of course, even as she's prioritizing her well-being, Emily is still finding ways to get out into the wilderness.
EP: I just recently went on a wildland trekking trip in this really remote, I think it's the least traveled section of Patagonia. It's Chile's Aysén region and it's home to Patagonia National Park. It's home to literal gauchos who run around all day on their horses with five cattle dogs running behind them. We flew into this random kind of middle of nowhere airport that is surrounded by Pampa, which is this kind of higher elevation grassland in Patagonia. And the trip honestly went south and further away from most towns from there. And we crossed Lago General Carrera, which is the second-biggest lake in South America I believe. It reminded me quite a lot of Alaska actually. We saw miles upon miles of huge mountains with ice fields and glaciers kind of pouring down over the tops of them.
The tree line was really stark, which I've never seen before. There was just a straight green line across most mountains. It just felt like more mountains and more wilderness than anyone could ever hope to hike in a lifetime. And then the gaucho-supported part of the trek was just on the outskirts of the park, hiking up and over these huge colorful mountain ranges. And there were some, I think old forests maybe like logging roads that we were following up and down various mountain passes. And then once we actually got to the national park, it was a little bit drier. I think you saw a lot more of the grasslands. It was really wild and rugged and beautiful. I was totally blown away and I want to go back.
LA: It sounds like a huge draw of going with the gauchos is to kind of get on those off-the-beaten-path, kind of backcountry spaces that you might not be able to have found yourself in Patagonia, which you were obviously a lot less familiar with than places here in the US. I'm interested to know, because you do do a lot of off-the-beaten-path, off-trail stuff. What's your framing around them? Do you share these routes and these places when you discover them, do you keep them to yourself?
EP: I think it depends a lot on the crowds that already visit a given location or national park. And I think it also depends on the resources and infrastructure that park or that piece of public lands might have. I definitely do not believe in gatekeeping, I think that the national parks are one of the most democratic things that we have left. I think that it's really cool that you can buy this $80 for a year parks pass and you can go to 400-and-something national park sites.
LA: Because it isn't just the big national ones, right?
EP: It gets you into national forests, I believe national monuments, historic sites, military, civil war battlefields, stuff like that. And yeah, I just love that you don't have to be wealthy to park your car with an awesome view of mountains or a lake. You don't have to buy a million dollar lake house to go vacation by an incredible lakeside spot. But yeah, to your point, I feel like you want to make sure that people going there understand fully how to dispose of trash and human waste and not have their dogs off leash. And there's just so many considerations that you have to make, even car camping if you're in a full-on wilderness area. I think that education is one of the key factors when it comes to safety and a leave no trace-y way of getting into the backcountry that's going to remain here.
LA: Leave, no trace-y, poor Tracy, don't leave her behind.
EP: [laughing] Yeah.
LA: After a short break, Emily tells me about some of her very first experiences in the backcountry and explains what a newbie like me might need to begin to get out into the wilderness.
In partnership with Wilderness
LA: And now, a conversation with Malavika Bhattacharya of Condé Nast Traveller India, all about both of our experiences with Wilderness, the sponsor of this week's episode. Welcome to the podcast, Malavika.
Malavika Bhattacharya: Hi, Lale. It's so nice to be here.
LA: So, I mean, this year we both got to experience some pretty extraordinary trips. I think you could maybe describe them as once in a lifetime, and they were all with Wilderness, which is this luxury conservation tourism company with some truly, truly gorgeous locations. I got to go on two incredible trips, one to Namibia and one to Botswana, both places I kind of felt like I'd never get the chance to visit. Uh, where did you go?
MB: I was lucky enough to go to Rwanda, a place that's been on my bucket list for so long. The main reason I went was to trek with the very elusive mountain gorillas, and I was lucky enough to stay at Wilderness Bisate, which is this gorgeous rainforest lodge at the edge of the Volcanoes National Park.
LA: Tell me a little bit about your trek into the forest where you got to see the gorillas.
MB: So I'll be honest, I was quite nervous the morning of the trek, but I think traveling with Wilderness makes it so seamless because they sent us out well prepared. We had our rain gear, we had snacks, and they organized all the permits for us. The guides were just so fabulous. They understand the terrain and the gorillas, and they actually communicate with them with grunts and sounds, to let them know that we are not a threat. I think it's just largely about understanding that you're a visitor in the gorilla's home.
LA: That's really interesting. It sounds so in line with Wilderness's mission when it comes to things like conservation and reforestation, particularly in Rwanda.
MB: Absolutely. My experience was so wonderful, Lale, but I want to hear about your trips to Botswana and Namibia.
LA: Oh, I'm so glad you asked. Namibia I was particularly excited about just due to the sheer remoteness of it. I flew to Johannesburg and then got a flight to Namibia, and then from there it was a series of small propeller planes over the desert. We drove over this almost Martian-like landscape with red sand dunes, huge black rock mountains, and then you kind of think there's nothing that can sustain life, but then you go down into this valley and suddenly you see a river, which feels like a miracle in this vast expanse of desert. And then you see Serra Cafema, which is the Wilderness property that is all the way out there in this sort of wild and remote oasis. There is no way that I could have got there by myself. I needed wilderness to take me to a place like that and to facilitate such an experience. And then, you know, over the course of the days I was there, it was really about spending my time with my guide, Stanley, who had grown up in that desert. He was Himba, which is the indigenous community that still lives there and has lived there for thousands of years.
MB: How did it feel for you to be in such a remote place as a solo woman traveler?
LA: It felt fantastic. You know, it felt so adventurous and so intrepid, but I also kind of knew at all times I had the support of people who knew the land, knew the country, could educate me about it, but also support me when I needed them.
MB: Where did you go after you met with the Himba?
LA: After that trip wrapped up, I then went to Botswana, which you couldn't have a more different place. I mean, if the landscape of Namibia is so quiet and so vast, the wildlife of Botswana feels really loud and full. There's the Okavango Delta, which is where Mombo, the Wilderness property that I stayed at, is located. It's this delta that basically floods the land every year and so it gets really green and lush and you see the animals start to move around. You are just in it in a way that I haven't experienced anywhere else.
MB: That sounds like an amazing journey and it just sort of makes you realize your place in the universe.
LA: Totally. And it also just taught me to just like calm down a bit. I think it's easy to forget that we are just little inconsequential specks and there's nothing like the Namibian desert or watching a pride of lions hunt for their lunch to remind you of that. If you too want to experience these incredible places in the world and do it in the most thoughtfully curated way possible. You can learn more at wildernessdestinations.com slash women who travel. Thank you so much for joining me, Malavika and for sharing all your stories.
MB: Thank you for having me Lale. It was wonderful to be here.
EP: My first ever solo backpacking trip, I purposely planned it all out to minimize my own anxiety about sleeping in a tent and carrying all my stuff by myself for the first time ever. So I picked a trail to Sykes Hot Springs in Big Sur, California that I had done before, and I knew that it was going to be a really popular trail on the weekend, so I knew I would see lots of other hikers in case something went wrong. I knew that I could flag someone down and I don't know, get help fixing my shoe if it broke or something. And it was great because I was familiar with the terrain. I knew that there was tons of water nearby if I ran out, I got to hang out in the hot spring and read my book for a long time.
LA: Oh, that sounds like bliss.
EP: Yeah. It was actually really beautiful and lovely. And I know that so much of our perception of what a wilderness backpacking trip is, is this absence of people and it's like Bear Grylls going out in the depths of Alaska or something like that. But I think that it's worth remembering that you can pace yourself when you're new at something. And sometimes the ways to mitigate those fears are being near other hikers or going somewhere that you're familiar with. And now I do prefer to have less crowded trails, and I wouldn't be mad if I didn't see a single other hiker. But on that initial trip, I think the one downside to picking a popular trail was that I pitched my tent, went to the hot spring, came back all relaxed and happy, and someone had pitched a tent literally right next to my tent and then spent most of the night around a campfire listening to music on their phone.
LA: Oh my God, what is wrong with people? Also, not off the phone. I'm sure the music was terrible. So I am really hoping to do that for myself soon. I'm going to try and go camping and I've only ever camped at music festivals, so I've slept in my fair share of tents, but that's a very different experience. What are your tips?
EP: Okay, well, I would say this one might be surprising, but I am a big fan of sleeping with earplugs in the wilderness. Because mathematically, there's pretty much nothing out there that's going to actually do anything to your tent while you're sleeping. But there might be a lot of things out there that make little noises or there might just be leaves that fall and make noise. And I've learned the hard way that sometimes it's better to just not know because you're pretty darn safe when you're in your tent.
LA: So you make an informed decision that you're like, "I feel safe enough that I'm going to put the earplugs in and not wind myself up about snapping branches."
EP: Yeah, exactly. It's something actually, weirdly enough, I started doing it when I was backpacking specifically, and then it kind of grew into something I did when I was sleeping in my van at truck stops when I was doing the Parks Adventure. And now it's something that I've noticed is incredibly helpful in city life as well. I'm trying to think of other good tips for you. Plan out your food in advance because then I feel like it'll be so much easier to cook with limited resources and also you'll have something to look forward to at the end of your hike. I often find myself looking forward to whatever weird pasta or tuna fish or whatever I packed that night.
If I know what it's going to be when I'm on the trail, I start to actually look forward to it instead of being upset that I have a little cardboard box of macaroni. I've only run out of food in the backcountry once or twice, and thank goodness it was on day hikes, so it was relatively safe because I could get back to my car and I was just a little cranky. But that being said, when I hiked the John Muir Trail, which was three weeks of backpacking in California, I purposely just carried extra weight. I just carried an extra pound of trail mix at all times because I wanted to have so many snacks that I would never get nervous. Another good one, I guess for both backpacking and car camping, although I guess you've festival camped, so maybe you've already done this one, but setting up your tent before you head out. Just in case-
LA: Yes, I do know this.
EP: Yes. Good. Okay. Yeah, I was going to say, man, there is nothing like setting up a tent in the rain or the wind. It really challenges your ability to remember how all the poles and stakes fit together to begin with.
LA: I mean, I have a meltdown if I realize I have to make my bed when it's time to go to bed, and then I have a mess to get into. So I feel like, yeah, I wouldn't cope well.
EP: In terms of good first-time backpacker itineraries, I would highly recommend doing less mileage than you know you're comfortable doing on a day hike. So if you day hike six or eight miles routinely, maybe try to cut it down to five miles just so that you know that your body can handle the distance and the elevation gain with a big, heavy, maybe 30 or 40 pound backpack on. And also be really mindful of water sources, particularly near camp. You might not need to refill water on the way to camp if you're only doing five or six miles, but you're probably not going to want to hike in many gallons of water on your back and then need to use that to cook and wash your dishes and things.
LA: You see, I'm like a relatively adventurous person and I'm already stressed as you are describing it about running out of water and...
EP: And one more tip, I think this goes for car camping or backpacking as well. I would say always have a sleeping bag that is at least rated 10 degrees warmer than the lowest temperature that's predicted for your trip. And that's just a really good safety margin to have so that you're super cozy and warm and you get a good night's sleep and you aren't left shivering and hating your life in your tent.
LA: Yes, I was going to say actually, as well as being hungry, I don't fare well with being cold. And actually at a music festival once I was with a friend and we grabbed some sleeping bags from her parents' house, got back to our tent a little bit drunk, very late at night and got into our sleeping bags and realized they were child-sized ones, and they went up to our waist and we had to spoon for warmth the entire night in our tent. And it was maybe the coldest I've ever been.
EP: Oh no, I'm glad you survived, Lale.
LA: Thank you. Nothing more humbling than pulling the sleeping bag up and it stopping at your hips.
EP: Yeah, that sounds pretty classic.
LA: So where can you get started if you want to get out into nature this summer? That's after another break.
EP: So I looked up a couple of little mini itineraries that I have either day hiked or personally backpacked to that I remember being easy in terms of parking. I believe you do have to get a wilderness permit from the national park that houses each of these itineraries because they are popular parks. But one of my favorites that's super short is Sunrise Lakes in Yosemite, I believe it's just about three miles to the first of the lakes. There's a trio of these cute little lakes right behind Tenaya Lake, which is huge. It's right near Tuolumne Meadows, which is a really famous area of the park. And I feel like Sunrise Lakes gives people a little baby glimpse into what it feels like to tackle a longer backpacking trip like the John Muir Trail or something where you're in the Sierras, you're going to Alpine Lakes, you can cool off by jumping in the lake at night after your hike is done.
There's plenty of water that you can pump with your water filter to make it safe to drink. Lots of great slabby Yosemite granite. So I feel like it's really vibe-y and there's good views for sunset. A little further east is Fern Lake in Rocky Mountain National Park, which is a little longer. It's about four miles to get to the lake and a little over 1200 feet of elevation gain, I believe. But once you're there, also a really amazing place to dip your toes in if you want to cool off, really beautiful views of the Continental Divide and some of the big craggy granite peaks of the Rocky Mountains. So it's a very iconic kind of place to pitch a tent.
There's also a really amazing waterfall on the way there that you can stop and take a break at for a snack. Another one, this is for if you're an East Coast person. I know Great Smoky Mountain can be very hit or miss because it is the most visited national park. But because the mountains aren't crazy high altitude, they are relatively accessible in the spring and fall, which I cannot say the same for the Sierra Nevada or the Rocky Mountains. And there's this funny little mountain that's right off the Appalachian Trail called Charlies Bunion, which is a great little funky name for... it's this rocky little bald top, I'm guessing, that is-
LA: I mean, it's very visual. I can definitely picture what it would look like.
EP: Yeah, it's a little mountain bunion.
LA: I do like the idea of asking for directions to Charlies Bunion.
EP: And there's a little if you don't want to actually carry a full on tent... So the Appalachian Trail is a bit more developed than things like the Pacific Crest Trail. It has these little backcountry kind of lean to shelters that are built out of wood mostly. And the Icewater Spring Shelter, it's just one mile from the great viewpoint at Charlies Bunion. And so that's a great place that someone could drop their sleeping bag and their sleeping pad and then keep on hiking to the bunion/bunion view.
LA: You've just shared such a variety of routes and itineraries and wilderness experiences, as we know, the reason why you're on this episode is because you are an expert in doing this stuff. Are there lessons you would love to pass along to someone who really wants to dig into what wilderness areas have to offer, maybe pursue a similar path to what you've done in terms of the outdoors? What do you wish that you had known?
EP: Yeah, so my first backpacking trip was kind of a disaster in a lot of ways because I didn't have a sleeping pad. I was crammed into a one-person tent with my boyfriend that was not big enough for two people. I had a really bad sleeping bag. I was not warm enough at night. I think I had a leather jacket with me because I didn't own a puffy.
LA: Oh my God, this sounds like the sort of crap I do. I'm from London, I would go camping with my leather jacket for sure.
EP: I mean, it was the warmest jacket I have and it's wind proof, it seems like a smart idea at the time.
LA: Durable.
EP: But yeah, I feel like the one thing that really stuck with me about that trip was being in the wilderness without anyone around except for my partner at the time. And watching the sun come up over the Great Western Divide in the Sierra Nevada and just having this sense of just utter self-reliance and magic and an utter lack of distraction that I think we are so devoid of in the city.
LA: Taking us back to Patagonia, you have a gaucho as a guide there. Again, for people who were curious about really getting further out into the wilderness and getting really off the beaten track, is it helpful to try and find a guide to take you out there or just kind of DIY it?
EP: I personally DIY-ed it after going out a few times with a partner who was an Eagle Scout. But that being said, I feel like I've actually learned more from guides and when I've gone on guided trips because they are such a wealth of information and generally a wealth of information about that specific location as well. So if there's a national park that you know like to go to every summer or one really close to where you live, finding a guiding company there will help you possibly meet like-minded travelers who might also be new to backpacking who want to get out in that same mountainous wilderness. And also the guides can help direct you to other good options or good first-timer trails or water sources. They tend to know all kinds of information in terms of tips and tricks of how to get permits or where to go to avoid crowds. So I would definitely recommend going with a guiding company if you are interested in getting into backpacking, but perhaps nervous about going on your own because you're newer.
LA: You've done it all. You've gone with guides, you've gone with friends and partners, and you've gone it alone a lot. And you talk about that in Feral a lot, and I guess in the last year you've been doing it too. What are the joys of actually just being out there on your own and doing it yourself?
EP: I think that there is a level of self-trust that very few things in this world can instill you with. Before I got into the wilderness, I was a professional aerialist in the circus for five or six years in Los Angeles.
LA: Emily, I did not know this. And you just slipped that fact in. Oh my God, I have so many questions. I don't know where to begin.
EP: Well, I was going to say, I remember when I was first learning how to hold myself up and spin around in the sky, that there was just this deep sense of self-confidence. I think that I was able to glean from it at a relatively young age in my early twenties, because you are quite literally holding your own life in your own hands multiple days a week. And I think that there's a really similar sensation that I get when I go out in the wilderness by myself, whether that's on a van trip with my dog or on a backpacking trip where I'm carrying all my stuff on my back. Yeah, I think that there's a wonderful self-reliance and a problem-solving and a quiet courage that you don't necessarily get in the city because there are all these safety guards and handrails in the city. And I think that shirking them, even if it's just for a day or two, can teach you a lot about who you are and what you're capable of.
LA: And usually you're capable of a lot more than you think. Emily, if people want to follow along with your travels where you're ending up, get some tips, where can they find you on the internet?
EP: You can find me at Brazen Backpacker and my book is called Feral.
LA: Thank you for listening to Women Who Travel. I'm Lale Arikoglu and you can find me on Instagram, @lalehannah. Our engineers are Jake Lummus and James Yost. The show is mixed by Amar Lal at Macrosound. Michele O'Brien produced this episode. Stephanie Kariuki is our executive producer. Chris Bannon is Condé Nast's head of Global Audio. Next week we're off to Tahiti following the journey of an Olympic surfer courtesy of Condé Nast Traveler editor Megan Spurrell. We'll see you then.